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Changing the Narrative of Inequality in South Africa with Rachel Kolisi

May 30, 2021

It's so easy to get caught up in our own little bubble, our own worries, our own dramas, our own dreams and our own beliefs. However, it's a beautiful thing to step outside of our internal world and look around us from time to time. One of the greatest privileges that my Life on Purpose Podcast gives me, is the opportunity to connect with amazing humans who are making a monumental impact on their communities and countries.

This week I got to sit down with Rachel Kolisi, from Cape Town, South Africa. She is on a mission, along with her husband Siya, to change the story of inequality in South Africa through their Kolisi Foundation. Siya Kolisi is the captain of the World Champion South African Rugby team - the Springboks but spends a large amount of his free time committed to the foundation with Rachel.

Proudly rooted in their home country, Siya and Rachel are compelled by a strong conviction that every little small act of change matters. With hearts willing to respond, hands ready to serve, and heads ready to learn, the Kolisi Foundation team is committed to the vision of changing narratives of inequality in South Africa.

In the interview, Rachel shares amazing insights about their vision for the future of South Africa and how they are harnessing Ubuntu to really impact their mission. One of the greatest insights that Rachel shared was around gender-based violence. More often than not we are ALL shocked when we hear of physical abuse of a woman or child, yet as Rachel pointed out - very few people put their money where their mouth is. Why is that? Where is the disconnect folks? We can easily justify the extra glass of vino, the trip to the cinema or the fourth latte of the week - yet we can't make a difference by donating to a cause that could change the future for millions of humans.

I'm excited for you to listen to the podcast with Rachel, and I would love if you could drop me a line with your thoughts and distinctions after listening.

Please go and check out the Kolisi Foundation, and donate if you are able.


You can also order Siya Kolisi's new book, RISE, here: https://harpercollins.co.uk/pages/siya-kolisi-rise

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Full Transcript

[The following is the full transcript of this episode of The Life On Purpose with James Laughlin Show. Please note that there may be small moments where grammar goes off track - this is simply due to the fact that the LIVE episode was converted to full long-form transcript.  For weekly motivation, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Youtube.]


James Laughlin, Life Coach, Leadership Coach and Executive Coach in Christchurch, New Zealand

Rachel Kolisi, Founder of the Kolisi Foundation, Cape Town, South Africa


James Laughlin 00:00 

Welcome to life on purpose. My name is James Laughlin, former seven-time world champion, musician, and now success coach to leaders and high performers. Each week, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you live your life on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today and investing in yourself. Enjoy the show.  


I'm incredibly excited to welcome in this week's guest, Rachel Kolisi. Rachel and her husband Siya founded the Kolisi Foundation in Cape Town, South Africa. In this week's episode, we’ll talk about her mission, Ubuntu and South Africa's greatest challenges. Enjoy the show, folks. If you're listening on Apple, please hit that subscribe button. Same on Spotify. And, if you could leave me a rating and review, I would sincerely appreciate it. It really helps me to impact more people. Have fun and enjoy the show. 


Hey Rachel, I just want to say a massive welcome to the Life on Purpose Podcast. 


Rachel Kolisi 


Thank you so much, James, for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you today. 


James Laughlin 01:19 

I'm totally honoured to get some time with you. I've been following you for quite some time and I'm really inspired by the Kolisi Foundation, what you guys are doing is phenomenal. 



I just want to chat a little bit about where did your journey start with charitable work? Where did you get fired up and inspired to really get involved with charitable work? 





Rachel Kolisi 


I think it was probably many years ago, you know, kind of as a child. It’s just something I've never been, it's never set easy with me, you know, seeing injustice in South Africa and how some people are living in South Africa, and how privileged some people are, and just how big that void is. So, it's something I always wanted to do more about, and I always did in my own way. So, like at school, I would make an extra sandwich. And after school, I would volunteer at orphanages or hospital or something and then when I guess my platform was kind of changing. I just felt more responsibility to do more about it. And I would just do projects, community projects. And the thing is, everybody wants to help brides, everyone wants to do something more. But they often just don't know where or how. So, I just started kind of connecting, doing like community projects. So, I would find, a school would reach out to me and said, we really need a library. And I would just bring together 60 individuals who all just want to do something amazing, and we would do a project together. And then of course, leading into the foundation. 



James Laughlin 03:02 

I love it. It's amazing. And obviously you guys are based in South Africa. And for those who are listening who don't know much about South Africa, can you tell us what are some of South Africa's greatest challenges that you're trying to help support through the foundation?  


Rachel Kolisi 


Our vision for the foundation is to change the narrative of inequality and in South Africa, and that is no small task. For those that don't know, in South Africa, we come from such a tough history, and such a challenging history. And, apartheid is a massive part of our history and it really has just kind of paid out into the day to day now, and I've spent a lot of time kind of understanding that as a white person in South Africa, what is my responsibility? What does that mean? For me, and it's been amazing, but the difference is so vast, you know, there's actually a picture, you can probably Google it, you Google the higher class and the lower class in South Africa, it's almost just a road in between, a township and a suburb. And that's basically South Africa, summed up. We're moving in the right direction, slowly, but we're moving in the right direction. But if the injustice is still very, very, very much real and still very much alive here. It's beautiful to see so many people wanting to change that, and those are the kind of people that we want to partner with in the foundation. And even with the foundation work, it's to change the narrative of inequality and narrative as a story, right? And we've always got to go back and unpack that. We’re trying to change stories in South Africa. See, the way that he grew up is really where we started, we were just like, what injustices did Siya have? He didn't have access to food, didn't have access to role models, didn't have access to opportunities, didn't have access to education, like others do in some communities in South Africa. And that's really where we started was like, how do we change those narratives for children in South Africa. And it's been an interesting journey so far, but it's always inspiring to see how many people want to be a part of that change. 


James Laughlin 05:33 

That's amazing. That's really beautiful. And, you know, I think of you, you're sharing Siyas beginnings and the challenges he had, and it's beautiful that people can then see, well, look where he started, and now he's, the captain of the best rugby team on the planet. 


Rachel Kolisi 


And you know, what? I'm just reading the first draft of his book, he's recently announced that he's releasing a book called Rise. 


James Laughlin 



Rachel Kolisi 

It's amazing. And I'm just finishing the first draft. And, you know, I was recently saying to a friend, it's so weird to be married to someone, but I still have so much to learn about him, you know? And the book, I just cannot recommend it. And it's not just for South Africans, it's for so many people, it's so incredibly inspiring. And he talks so much into what it was like for him in detail, what it was like for him growing up, telling stories that I, you know, his wife has never even heard. So, I just can't recommend, you know, reading that book enough to every single individual to really understand how many times an individual, you know, talking about Siya now, but every single individual, we all get knocked down, right? And we all go through challenges, but how do we get back up again? Like, how do we find the fights in us again?  To go again? And that really is just like, a nice short summary of like, what he's put on those pages, but I just think, you know, it's so tangible for so many individuals, because we all go through tough things, but how do we go again, you know? 


James Laughlin 07:08 

That's priceless, we all need to learn those strategies. Because as you say, adversity is one of those things in life that we can't avoid, it's going to hit us at some point. And when the book comes out, I want to know, and I'd love to learn more, but I want to tell everybody that's watching or listening or to get it as well. So, when that comes out, please let me know. 


Rachel Kolisi 


Well, that's available for presales already.  


James Laughlin 



Rachel Kolisi 

I think the link is on his social media, but I'll make sure that we get that to you. 





James Laughlin 07:35 

Please do, that'd be amazing. And with your foundations with the Kolisi Foundation, how do you carry out your day-to-day missions on a day-to-day basis? What does it look like? 


Rachel Kolisi 


So, we always make sure and obviously, the foundation was founded during a pandemic. So, it was an immediate relief. And we went straight into the PPE’s. So, protection gear for frontline workers, sanitizers, gloves, masks, those, you know, whatever they call them, like protective gear for the doctors and stuff, and then the doctors just kind of said to us, like, hey, let's put enough PPE, what we need is for people to stay at home, and a lot of people, you know, all over the world. But obviously our focus was on South Africa lost their jobs. When you're talking and Siya, talks about this in his book as well, but when you are talking about the under resourced communities, you know, you're talking about six to nine people living in a two-bedroom home. And, and then you're asking everyone to social distance, you're asking around to stay at home. And some people, you know, must leave home in order to put food on their tables, you know, it's not really an option for them. So, it was so interesting, you know, going then being asked to then, please, people need food so they can stay at home, because so many people lost their jobs and weren't able to put food on the tables anymore. And that's really what we what we bought into first was food security. So that was that's one of our programmes. And then of course, you know, after, you know, the first and second wave, we kind of stepped back into how we are going to make a foundation will programmatic work. That takes a lot of work, and it takes a lot of learning. So, we've really spent a lot of time just going into different communities finding out what are the needs? How can we partner with organizations, you know, that have been existing for years already? And you know, like, if you look at something like a soup kitchen, which so many South Africans depend on and you know, they were functioning way before COVID, they'll be functioning throughout COVID, and they'll be functioning long after COVID as well. Some of them are almost grateful because they feel like a light has been shown and the work that they're doing right. So, for us, it's really just been going into communities and learning, and putting a lot of structures in place for our programmes. And then we really going to get stuck in. But on this side, we still have some amazing projects that we run in, you know, in the gender-based violence space, in the food security space, as well as in the sports development space, and a lot of really exciting things coming up. So, I just, I can't stress enough. It's not just Siya and I. It's our hearts, it's our vision, that we have the most phenomenal team that backs us and, you know, beyond our team, even, there's so many South Africans who just bought into this vision, you know. Not even South Africans, there's so many people who just bought into this vision, and they were like, we trust you guys, we trust you're going to do the right thing. And it's just been an incredible journey, because we've always just wanted people to kind of when they see the foundation, they look at the work the foundation's doing. We want them to feel hopeful, and we want them to feel a part of something good and something big. 








James Laughlin 11:10 

That's stunning. And for any organisation such as yourself, there's challenges, right? And one of those challenges is capital. So how can people help you guys to bring some capital and some joint ventures to the table where you guys can really take your mission and let it explode? 


Rachel Kolisi 


Yeah, so I mean, absolutely capitals a huge part of it. And you know, in order for organisations like this to create a legacy and to work for years and years and years, you know, there's there's a lot that needs to be kind of explored in the capital kind of region. And you know, everyone wants to give money, and then see where their money goes. And a lot of people I feel, I'm not just talking about the Kolisi Foundation, you know, all NGO kind of spaces in order for them to have a good team and to create good structures and sustainability in the organisation. You know, they have to have things like endowments, and it's a very amased, it's been a very challenging thing to fundraise for, because people are almost like, I don't want my money to sit in a bank, like, I want to see it go out and do amazing work and stuff. But no, for that amazing work to happen, you know, there has to be money in the bank. But yeah, it's you know. I must say, like gender-based violence has been one of the most challenging programmes to fundraise for, it's incredible, because everybody talks about how bad it is, you know, women and children being abused, being murdered, how bad is that? And you know, it's almost like a popular thing to talk about, but people don't put their money where their mouth is in that regard. So, um, so it's been quite challenging. But, you know, we are always open to hear people's ideas, and we don't know it all. And that's the thing is, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel here, you know, we are always open to learn and to understand and get to hear from others who know this space. Well. So, you know, if there is anybody who feels like they can, you know, shed some light, then that's incredible. But really, we try and make our campaigns that we run in the fundraising that we do, we try and make it look accessible to everyday individuals. So, we've got like, these power packs, for instance, that go for like, 35 grand, I mean, I have no idea what that would be. And- 


James Laughlin 13:29 

I think it's about five or $10. 


Rachel Kolisi 


Okay, so like five bucks, and that, you know, can sometimes be a matter of life or death for a woman. These packs we put together with pepper sprays, and a whistle, and a journal with all of the emergency numbers and stuff. And the thing is, is when you kind of put that into perspective, because not everybody has a bunch of money to give, right? Like some people just have five bucks to give them. And the thing is this, for you to know that that is going to somebody that could potentially save somebody is like, you know, that's important to us, you know. But if there are, you know, we always open to partnerships, we're always open to suggestions, and we've got an amazing website app and all of the details, you know, if anyone is willing to donate or is in a position to donate, or once they have a conversation as a possible partner, or bigger donor, then please keep an eye on our social media pages and our websites as well. 


James Laughlin 14:27 

I love it. Well, let's just remind people where to go. So, the website is: 


Rachel Kolisi 


www.kolisifoundation.org. And then we've got the Instagram page, we're on Twitter, we're on YouTube, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, and the Kolisi Foundation was pretty simple to find and you're always amazing updates on this. 


James Laughlin 14:52 

I'll make sure on all of our clips on Instagram, Facebook, all of around. Make sure that all of your links are in so that people can jump in there. Anybody that's listening or watching that's really into charitable work that has got incredible skills, please do reach out. And I will connect you with these guys because you have to share resources, ideas, and capital. I mean, that would just be great. 



And there's one thing I wanted to ask you. So, I spent a whole year it was just coming into COVID. And every year, I pick a new leader. And I studied them as many books as I can find on them. So, I picked Nelson Mandela. And I've always looked up to him, I've always really admired him and how he carried himself the things that he done in his lifetime. And I studied him in detail. And one of the things that came to light was this amazing word, ubuntu, I thought, That's quite an incredible word. And then when I was investigating and researching what you guys were doing, I was like, that's one of your key values is ubuntu. So could you please share what your thoughts and feelings are around the ubuntu and how that features in the foundation. 



So yeah, you know, ubuntu is really a, it's like a South African proverb, basically the meaning is I'm a person through other people, so I am who I am, because of you. And, you know, South Africa is one of the most diverse countries in the world, and we have the most phenomenal just people and from all different backgrounds and races and religions, and there's just so much value adds to that. And I really do believe that that's why, you know, when foreigners come into South Africa, they just, like, almost blown away, like, I've managed to do a bit of travelling, you know, and there's no way where I go, that's like South Africa. There's just so much of, you know, so much diversity, so much different, so much beauty. And for us, you know, Ubuntu is really, I am who I am, because, because of you, and we tie that into all the work that we're doing, because we try to cut out this whole thing of. I'm here to help you, I can save you, I can fix whatever it is you need, and kind of realise that without you, I can't be doing what I'm doing. So, we kind of changed our language into partnerships. And, and you know, just because somebody stays in a different environment to what you stay in and speaks a different language to what you speak and eat different foods or what you eat, doesn't make them less or more than who you are. And, and that's really the foundation of ubuntu is really just realising that we are different, but all the same, you know, at the end of the day, you know, so it's really just something that we always remind ourselves of, and it's such a beautiful saying, and it's got such a strong, powerful meaning behind it. 


James Laughlin 17:49 

It's really beautiful. And I know, a lot of top sports teams all around the world, there was one in North America, I believe it was a basketball team. They became like the best basketball team in North America, they adopted ubuntu and they stay attribute their success to that, that theme, that idea that carry them forward. So, it's such a beautiful thing. So, for everybody out there, I want you to go and check out the website and check out all the key values that you guys live by. Remember the one by one is that- 


Rachel Kolisi 


Yeah, it's so funny, because that was actually an accident. So honestly, James, we started this foundation, no website, no logo. In fact, the logo, we had someone else called us a week later, they were like, it's pretty much exactly the same as ours. So sorry. We haven't even started anyway, that ended up being so funny and they were so chill, but we just, we started with like nothing, we've just like, we want to do good work, like we want to help, we want to you know, we were in a pandemic, we've got amazing partners, we know we can kind of engage with people and get them moving. And you know, the motto is just something that also just, it was an accident. And the thing is, it was an accident, but also just it worked out perfectly. But we were just thinking one thing that we never wanted to forget was an individual, we never wanted to because I feel sometimes like organisations and whether it be in the NGO space or the charitable space or in like big organisations of business organisations and stuff. I feel like people you know, people now in the 21st century, just get so caught up in like; Okay, what can we do? What's next? Like how do we make more money? How do we, you know, just more, more, more and we just never wanted to miss out on the individual. And when we speak about the individual, you know, that remember the one, one by one. We're not talking about like an individual in need, we’re talking about the individual that has a resource to give as well. And for neither of those to be overlooked, you know, and to be underestimated. And because you know you talk about a Mandela, he was one person, right? And imagine so many things in his life just never played out the way that it did, and South Africa would never be the South Africa that it is today. And that was because of one person. and also, the work gets overwhelming, like sometimes you go out and, you know, sometimes people like oh, you must go to bed every night and like, Pat yourselves on the back and like you've done such a great job. And I'm like, No, absolutely not actually, we go to bed with our hearts heavier than before, you know, especially when we've been in a rough environment and a community that's so under resourced, and our hearts are broken, you know, and we just, you know, you feel this need of like, are we doing enough? Like, should we do more? What can we do? And that's where we just go back to the motto, like, it's one by one, like, that's what you need to focus on that you're not missing out on the person today that you had a conversation with. And the person today that you saw his narrative is in the process of changing. And don't forget about that and don't forget the importance of that. So, the martyr just landed up being so powerful for us, and sometimes a lifeline on the days that are very heavy and very hard. 




James Laughlin 21:08 

It's really powerful. Thanks for sharing the background story, because I read the model and I was like, that's really cool. And what's the story? There's got to be a story behind it. So, I love that.  


Rachel Kolisi 

Yeah, no, it worked out.  



And tell me, you know, you're a busy mom, you've got lots of things that you juggle. So how do you convey the message to your children about what you guys do and what you're doing for the community? what's the narrative you have for your kids around? Hey, here's what mommy and daddy do. 



You know, lockdown was really hard for them, because we were travelling by car all over the country, because we were doing food deliveries, and we wanted to make sure you know, the food was distributed where it needed to be and got into the hands that it needed to be in. And we partnered with pecan pie and boxes stores, and they were just absolutely phenomenal. And always making sure you know, food was where we needed to be, and distributed as it should be, but we were just always there, it's just for our peace of mind to make sure. But you know, in that process, I mean, Siya was on the road for 16 I stayed home for a couple of the trips, because of the kids, but Siya was on the road, 16,000 kilometres, he drove around just over 16,000 kilometres. And I mean, an eight-hour drive started feeling like going down the road for us, and we must have gone, you know, to prepare for where he grew up at least eight times within a month and, you know, it kind of helped us create a foundation, spending time, and with different people, different communities and spending time learning, understanding, hearing, seeing what needed to be addressed. And that's kind of how we almost figured out how the foundation was going to, like come together and what work we were going to do. But for the kids, you know, they were obviously at home. All across the world, we all had to do the homeschooling thing. And Lord knows how challenging that is. I love my kids so much, but cheap as I was excited when schools open. I don't think there's a parent out here that can possibly deny it. But, you know, for them, it was really challenging, because they didn't understand and, and the thing is, it's important to teach your children the right messaging to not be like, oh, we're going to go feed all these hungry people, you know, yes, they’re hungry, but like, you've got to, you've got to teach them from a young age, like, why are they hungry? Like, how did they get to this place, that we've got so many people in our country that are in such an unjust environment and living space? And how did they get there. So, my son, you know, he's, he's six, and he's got a good understanding of it. But one thing that is super important to us is making sure that they spend time in different communities as well. So whenever we can, you know, if we're doing a project will bring the kids along, actually, so some of those library projects that I spoke about, it always brought the kids with, and, you know, they would do some of the painting on the walls or whatever, but we never want them to have this thing like, Oh, yeah, we’re coming to help and like, fix it for you and sit and then we're going to go back to our nice house, but to really, you know, get involved and engage in in those kinds of places and different people's worlds. And it's been such a beautiful thing to see because they so open and they are so caring and they've got such a heart for people you know, and my son is so aware of it you know, he's a very aware and open eyed young boy and, and he's just always, you know, like, no, no, what can we do about that person on the street? You know, there's been a massive storm in Cape Town yesterday and, and he's like, what can we do? Like she must have been so cold last night and, and you know, then it causes me to think as well. So, for us, it's just making sure that our kids are also doing the work with us. So, they understand what's happening. And they don't have this thought in their head, like, oh, shame, my mom, the saviours of feeding a bunch of people around South Africa. We don't want them to have that narrative in their minds, you know, we want them to understand the full picture. So, we take them whenever we can. And, I mean, it's a legacy, the foundation is a legacy project. And my real hope is that, you know, one day, it's something that they will be working in one day as well. 



James Laughlin 25:45 

That's tremendous. And I'm very confident that they will. And if you fast forward, let's say 30-40 years long way, what would be one of those moonshot goals that the foundation could achieve one thing and make a big dent in something what would be like an amazing thing to achieve? 


Rachel Kolisi 


Yeah, one thing that Siya talks about a lot, but you know, also addresses in the book, as well as it's really around having to leave his communities. So, he was living in Sweden in a township and had to go to Greece, so he couldn't speak English. He was top of the class, you know, at Insignia the school that he was at in Sweden. And then all of a sudden, bottom of the class. And, you know, he says, I wasn't stupid, like, I was a clever boy. And instead of gray learning closer, you know, he was then expected to learn English. And so, I think one thing for us, you know, if we look 10 years, and it's to really bold townships in South Africa, and create resource and create equal opportunities in townships, and to kind of stop this whole thing of like, Oh, my gosh, don't go into the townships, they're so dangerous. Like, you have to be so careful when you are there. But to really build that space to address this inequality. 


James Laughlin 27:13 

That's tremendous. And it's interesting, because I've never been to South Africa. And I've wanted to go for so long. And once COVID disappear- 


Rachel Kolisi 

Oh, you have to. You have to. 


James Laughlin 

I want to go on ships, and people are like, oh, James, you got to be so careful. But I want to go and I want to experience how everyone lives and see what life is like. 


Rachel Kolisi 


No, it's amazing. And there's actually, you know, in the sporting development programme, there's something incredible that we worked on, I was actually just in a meeting about it yesterday, and something really, really incredible that we're working on. So hopefully, when you do get a trabajo, you can actually come and see what we've done because it should be well underway by then. So super exciting. 



James Laughlin 27:52 

Yeah, that's epic. I love it. That's so cool. Now there's one question I really wanted to ask. And it's one that I asked everyone to finish up and that is to you, what does living a life of purpose really mean? 


Rachel Kolisi 


You know, I used to do, well, I still do, but women's events all over the place. And you know, something that I always encouraged I’m woman because I find that we give so much of ourselves, a lot of people do, but women especially, you know, we raised kids, we're good wives, we're expected to have good careers good social lives. You know, be successful, look a certain way, make sure your health and fitness are good, you know, all of these just unrealistic expectations of a woman. And you're almost get so lost and making sure everybody else is fine. So, like, kids are fine, marriage is fine, like home is fine, work is fine, that you almost lose, like touch with you. And you give so much I always use this analogy of pouring from your cup you pour to everybody else's cup. And when do you take the time to fill your own. And one thing for me, you know, when I spoke about purpose and finding your purpose, I really believe that that's in something that breaks your heart. So, if you spend a bit of time like just a bit of time, close your eyes and think about something that really breaks your heart and something that really is doesn't sit well with you and something that you can't just think about and like, oh it breaks my heart and then move on. So, for me, it was always children on the streets, and just like that is just crazy for me. I'm like, how is that a reality? You know, their children. Honestly, it was just it was insane for me. But that's where I believe I found my purpose was there because that broke my heart. And I chose to do something with that and doesn't necessarily mean that you know, you've got to give a bunch of time you've got to give a bunch of money, but it means that you've got to open your eyes to something and I really Do you believe that your purpose is found in that, and what you do with that, I believe is really set you up for your life, you know, and what you want to achieve in your life and the legacy that you want to leave behind. And, you know, we’re all getting older and one day, you know, when you're coming towards the end, like what's something you're going to look back on and be like, go my kids to school bought a house, you know, had a good marriage, bought a car paid off all my bills. So, what's that one thing that you're going to be like, I'm so glad I was a part of that. I'm so glad that I addressed that I'm so glad that I did something about that. So, whatever that looks like for an individual, like, I'm just so just dive into it and do it. Because the time is now, and life is short. 






James Laughlin 30:50 

That's beautiful. The time is now, and life a short, I love it. And what I heard from that was your purpose is in your pain, wherever your pain is, that's where your purpose lies. 


Rachel Kolisi 

Yeah, 100%.   


James Laughlin   

I love it. Well, I just want to say a heartfelt thank you for taking the time to connect, Rachel, it's been amazing. And I'll be putting all the links to the foundation and to see his new book. I'm excited to get my hands on it myself. And I'll be ordering a few copies because I've got a few friends actually in the rugby sphere, who would probably love a read of it as well because they admire him as well. So, I got a few extra copies. 


Rachel Kolisi 


Wow, it's going to be incredible. And thank you so much for having me on James. I really appreciate it. And now I look forward to welcoming you in good old South Africa. 


James Laughlin 31:46 

Thank you so much for listening in today and investing in your own personal growth. Please hit that subscribe button. I would love, love, love if you'd leave me a rating and review as it really helps me to impact more people. I've got some amazing guests lined up in the coming weeks. And folks, it's that time. Get out there and live life on purpose.