The Art of Self-MasteryAug 15, 2021
Learn about the art of self-mastery from one of South Africa's leading artists, Ari Hersch. In this weeks episode he shared his story about how he became an artist - and the journey of challenges and rewards. His humility shone through, and he said he doesn't feel like a master, and is continually in a pursuit of learning more.
"Don't fight the system, don't fight where life is taking you." Ari Hersch has a beautiful way of looking at the world and you can see it coming through in his contemporary works. If you are truly committed to personal growth and development - then you are going to learn lots by tuning in today.
Recently, Ari signed a deal with crypto.com and launched a group of sell-out NFT works. He is continuing to lead the way with modern innovation and embracing the world of non-fungible-tokens.
You can check out Ari's work:
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Ari Hersch, South African Artist
James Laughlin, Life Coach and Executive Coach from Christchurch, New Zealand
James Laughlin 00:01
Welcome to Life on Purpose. My name is James Laughlin, former seven-time world champion musician and now a success coach to leaders and high performers. Each week, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you live your life on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today and investing in yourself. Enjoy the show!
I really pride myself in bringing you guys some of the most incredible humans each and every week. This week is no different. So, let's talk about art. Artists often struggle, very few make it. It's a hard industry. So many of the greats don't become great until long after they're dead. Ari Hersch joins me today Ari is a South African artist who is simply phenomenal, is crushing it. Ari has a contemporary work. And one of his quotes that I just love is "Always be innovating." So guys, sit back and enjoy the show and think about how this can apply in all areas of your life. Ari committed, he is relentless, he is resourceful, so inspiring. So, enjoy the show. Ari a massive Welcome to the life on purpose podcast.
Ari Hersch 01:44
Thank you, James. Thanks for having me.
WHERE DID YOUR PASSION BEGIN?
James Laughlin 01:47
Hey, thanks for making the time. And your art is simply mind-blowingly inspiring. And I hope everyone that's listening today takes a moment to jump over to Instagram and follow you. I'll certainly be putting all your links and so forth in all of our posts and your works amazing. So, I guess let's start from the start. Where did like your passion? I would say yeah, it's a passion. It looks like passion when I see what you do. Where did that passion begin for your artwork?
Ari Hersch 02:14
So, the passion started when I was a child. You know, when I was a kid, I was always sketching. And I don't know if I was that good. I was always like, sketching, like, stickman. But I had a very, very intense imagination. So, I used to actually play like, for example, like I play war games by sketching, you know. So that's how it originally started. And what happened was I used to go have a very good friend of mine whose grandmother was an artist. And I think I must have been about 11 or 12 and I went to their house. And you know, I used to see her art on the wall, and she was always like putting up new works and she used to draw a lot of the human body. You know, like she liked to draw nudes and all the some really cool things. And, you know, I saw the works. And what happened was when I was about 12, I was given a present, a book by a light South African artist by the name of Jarrett Sokoto, I was given the book for my birthday when I was 12. And he was a South African black artist who grew up in the townships in apartheid South Africa. And he captured a lot of township scenes. You know, when I got this book, I went through it and really loved the colors and how he used his how he sketched his daily life and what he was seeing out there, you know? And today, I mean, he's one of the Masters that have come out of South Africa, out of South Africa. And then when I started like looking at his work, you know, I would literally sit there a little 12 year old, I'd sit there with his book, I open with a little A4 piece of paper at my mother's desk, and I would sit and sketch and sketch like try and copy his work, you know, and then it moved from like sketching with pencil or pen because I was like what I had in those days. My parents bought me a paint set, like a very basic one. And then I moved over like just like constantly just evolved and I started sketching with there and painting with acrylic. And when I got to high school, I took up art as a subject from like, grade eight we call it in South Africa. And from grade eight to my final year in school, I took art as a subject and you know, that's hard luck involved. And while I was even sitting in like Math class or English class or business, you know my teachers always used to complain because they're always catch me sketching in my textbooks.
James Laughlin 05:00
I love it. I love it.
Ari Hersch 05:02
As it's like growing up, I remember I was always sketching when I was on holiday, I always had a diary or like a moleskine. And it was like, just, it's my escape, you know, it's like my time, just relax and enjoy it.
James Laughlin 05:16
That's amazing. I look at you as a master. And when you look at people, you can just tell from their work, whether they're a musician, or they're an artist, you can tell when they're a master of what they do. And mastery takes time. And mastery is not something you download, there's no instant gratification. So, when you look back on it, you know, what were some of the sacrifices you had to make to actually become the artist that you are?
Ari Hersch 05:40
Okay, so when I look, I don't see myself as a master, I think I've still got so much to learn, and I'm learning new things every day. But I still actually see myself as a complete rookie, you know. And I think that's very important, you know, because we can always learn. And I meet artists all the time, I have guys that reach out to me experienced artists, guys that are just starting out that want assistance, and I give them like tips and help out a lot of artists that are up and coming and facing the same issues that I originally had. But my art progressed, when I finished when I finished school, I said to my parents like, what should I study, obviously, it has to be something creative, because that's my personality. So obviously, the discussion went down that art is not a great profession in terms of making a good living, you know, especially if you're starting out, you can go study Bachelor of Arts at university, you come out of the avenue of professional artists, that doesn't mean you're going to guaranteed to make a lot of money and being able to survive. So, my parents’ kind of like directed me in a way to find another creative field that is something that I might enjoyed. So, I come from a family of property developers, they've always been inside real estate, and architects and architecture. So, I went, and I studied interior architecture in Johannesburg, and with that course and degree, it opened up a lot of new fields for me, because obviously, it entailed a lot of sketching and creativity, lack of my fellow students would use 3d software to kind of portray the space, I would hand sketch the space, you know. And, you know, hand drawn renders, we call it in that in that field, a very unique and guys that do that in harder mind in their industry, because it's slowly slowly starting to be taken over completely by technology, and photo realism. And so that's how in university, I was always still sketching. And on the side, I've always maintained my discipline in terms of when on weekends, I would always put canvas on my easel and I would paint or I would sketch. So it was always something that I did alongside while I studied, you know? So, I finished my degree at university, and then I went on to work, I'm going to headhunted out of university by a very, very well-known South African architect who wanted me to come and work from his head office in Cape Town. So, I relocated to Cape Town. And I worked as an apprentice in his office, it was really cool, because there was some really, really dynamic and creative guys in that office. So, I worked there, I worked there for a year, and due to the family business, needing assistance, I decided that I'll step in and help the family out. So, I left the architecture around, and I went into a marketing realm and in this environment. So, I went, and I did that, you know, I have an older brother, who was who's an advocate, and he had no intention of getting involved in the family business, and it's just the two of us. So, at the time, he was really established. And, you know, for me to go, I'm just starting up my life in my career, it was just more obvious for me to get involved in the business side and got involved in marketing for the business and building it. So, on the side, I was still sketching, you know, always.
James Laughlin 09:25
There was like a constant like in the background. You were always going back to that.
Ari Hersch 09:29
Yeah, you know, I wasn't pushing it because it wasn't that my main focus at the time, I was really busy. And also, I was concentrating on the marketing elements and branding and graphic design. And while I was now working in a marketing environment, I was learning new skills. So, in terms of using graphic design programs, that university we use them but not to the level that I needed it at that time. So now I'm now learning a whole new creative side. And I started working with a couple of the graphic designers in the business. And I learned from them. And, you know, but the art and stuff were always I would have like a piece here that I would sell one to a friend to family, give away as gifts. Wow. And yeah, that's that was like the really early days.
DID THE FAMILY BUSINESS HELP ON WHAT YOU’RE CURRENTLY DOING?
James Laughlin 10:28
And then now I sense thing what you talk about the marketing, it's when you're doing things, sometimes we don't realize why we're doing them. And then in hindsight, we look back. So, the marketing that you ended up doing under branding and stuff will obviously be helping what you're currently doing and, and your whole idea and approach to business, right?
Ari Hersch 10:43
Very much so. And that's why I say to people don't fight the system, don't fight where life is taking you. Because you never know when you might need that. Like I said, I learned so many valuable things that when I decided to go full time into art and to creating. And it's opened up so many spaces, because the marketing festival is helping me build my own business, which is my studio, and all the graphic design work and stuff I've like kind of like incorporated into the AV studio. So, it's not just an art studio, I'm doing creative stuff, I'm building websites now. For so many people, and you know, art is the main is the main focus for me on it. But it's because of the skills that I've learned over the time, it's allowed me to almost like venture out.
WHAT WERE YOUR STRUGGLES?
James Laughlin 11:41
That's amazing. I think a lot of people do get very tunnel vision with what they're doing not realize that, hey, all these other skill sets could combine to help me have a broader platform. So, when you look at your art, you know, I think of artists and okay, some artists make it real big. And lots of artists’ struggle. So, for you, what were your struggles? And how have you got to this platform that you're at right now.
Ari Hersch 12:04
So, my struggles starting out, obviously, because I was working in a full-time job and stuff, the time that that's needed to start building up the works for like, for example solo show. And also, I think, you know, the art world is very funny. It's controlled mainly by galleries. And it's a very difficult space, especially if you're breaking out. Because there's not many galleries and staff that are willing to give new artists a chance. And they'll say to you listen, go out, get some experience, and then come and speak to us. But how are you supposed to get that experience if the galleries aren't willing to give you that experience? So, when I started out, you know when to show my work to a lot of galleries, they love the works, but they said to me, look, you don't have enough of a following of buyers that are really buying your work. Which obviously, I'm literally just starting out in my career. And that's the reason why I'm coming to speak to you so that we can build something together. But that's how galleries work. That's their business model, you know, they'll come in with certain elements, and the artist must come with or say, almost stuck or have his own clientele that will bar you know? So, when I started out that was obviously and it's never easy going in and you getting told that your works cool, but it's just, you know, I'm not at that level yet. So, it can be discouraging. And often you get back and you think like what I am really like doing this for? Thank God I wasn't relying on It's for my main income, otherwise, I think I would have stopped. But I literally find a friend who was like an art dealer at the time. And I said to him, look, this is the goal, I want to try and build this business on the side of my main career. And he said, cool, like, I've got this cool space in Maboneng Precinct, which is an area in Johannesburg that was kind of like redeveloped and he had like a cool gallery space.
And he said come let's put up your words, we'll show you and put up about 10 works at a time. Because that charcoal works and energy to set out that show like over and over again. Yeah, it was quite cool. It was really cool. But still, it's not enough to go to the top galleries where you know, you're going to get a good name because you also as an artist want to be associated with those really nice galleries and stuff. And, you know, I come from a background where I just don't give up. So I'm just going to make it work, you know? And I think with my marketing background and stuff like about four years ago, five years ago, I decided like I needed to take this more seriously. So, I created like my own Instagram page, created a Facebook profile for my art and we slowly started to grow the brand and Chroma my own, I use my own skills to kind of promote myself, you know. And it was only then when I started to build up a solid following that, I went to a certain gallery. And they're really cool guys. And they gave me an amazing opportunity. And I signed with him, I signed with him in Johannesburg. And I had solo shows with them and just when we get back with my mate that had that that space for me in Maboneng. He also organized that really cool to take up space at these big expos. Like the Johannesburg Turbine Art Fair. And I always had worked up and they were getting sold. So, it was it was cool in the sign. And then after I saw there was a demand for some for my work. I decided, you know, I got to start looking at this more seriously, you know, follow my passion and dream and, and build it right?
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR WORK?
James Laughlin 15:57
That's amazing. I hear like persistence, I hear vision. I hear like getting clarity on who you are. It's when I talk to any high performer, whether they're an athlete, or they're a global leader artist, these things keep coming up like these patterns. And it's funny because I came across your stuff totally organically on Instagram. And I've been studying Nelson Mandela for quite some time now. And I just I was like looking at hashtags or Mandela, like, just to get some images that I enjoyed and boom! Your work came out. I was like, this is insanely awesome. And I don't know how to describe your work. So how would you describe your work? To me, it's very unique. But what inspires you? How would you describe the niche of the work that you do?
Ari Hersch 16:38
So, I can't describe my work in terms of like one word, because I'm constantly evolving. Actually, yet to see what I'm producing now opposed to what I was producing two years ago, it's completely changed. And the reason why it's changing and why it's evolving, is because I've been introduced to so many new techniques and mediums. You know, like, before last year, I was a complete traditionalist, I refuse to touch any Apple Pencil or draw on an iPad. And, you know, I had to fill the piece of paper and have a love, I love the apple pencils.
Me too! Haha!
And before that, I had to feel the charcoal in my hands because charcoal was like a medium that I really enjoyed. And a good friend of mine who's an illustrator said to me, you need to try this, you need to really give it a go because like you can see I'm not just using dark moleskine diaries and just filling them up and just sketching, sketching, sketching. And eventually, like, what happened was I immigrated last year. And when I immigrated, it was at the start of all the lockdowns worldwide. And all my equipment was in a container stuck in a ship in Durban. And it took about six months for, for my gear to arrive. Wow. So, I did have an Apple Pencil because I was using a black briefly. And I here's my Apple Pencil.
James Laughlin 18:13
Yes. Love it. Oh, you're just supercharged.
Ari Hersch 18:17
Yeah, I've just got a nice silicone cover on it. But so, when I was in this position, where I had no gear and stuff, I had to obviously had this huge release to start creating new works. And I started sketching on my iPad because I had nothing else. And I first it was very difficult for me because it's like working on a, like a slippery screen. And you know, you're getting used to all the new brushes. And after I swear like two weeks, it was amazing and opened a completely new world for me. And because it's completely it's so powerful that it allows you to express a lot, like a lot more where I feel like sometimes on a piece of paper, you can be sometimes a bit suppressed, you know, and limited. But my technique has changed with the mediums that I use, because obviously there's certain things that for example, my charcoal works, I still try and sketch. I still sketch physically, and I still have a studio that I put works up and I still work on that stuff. But now with my iPad and stuff, I'm literally going sitting on a train and sketching, and I can produce a work that can be made into but for me to work, you know, if you need to work to, it's amazing. Yeah. So, my work is constantly evolving and my subject matter as well.
THE NFT SPHERE
James Laughlin 19:55
That's incredible. And so, the whole COVID situation forced you I had to go down a different route. Now you're seeing possibilities. So, let's talk about that. Because I've been following closely with some of what you're doing with the NFT sphere. So, the non-fungible tokens, right? Am I right? So, tell me a little bit more about what you do with that. Where you see that going?
Ari Hersch 20:17
So, I'm not an expert with NFT's. I've literally just dived into the deep end. And I'm learning new things about it as well. I've also hit brick walls within that space as well, even though it's brand new. But you know, because I started sketching digitally. Then the works NFT's are basically digital art that you kind of sell yourself as if it's a physical artwork. And what happened was, last year, I got contacted by a guy who's very well known in that space. And he said to me, look, your work needs to be made into NFT's. I'm like, what is NFT's? He's like, look, I'll do it with you, I'm on this journey, as well. So, we'll work on it together, you know, he's very business orientated. And I said, Tim, cool, you know, I'm the creator, I've got the business knowledge as well. But you know, two heads are better than one.
And we literally embarked on that journey, I released a few NFT's on various platforms, some of the platforms were good, some of them weren't good. And in terms of in terms of when I say they are good, and that people underestimate, you have to actually spend money in order to make it because it doesn't cost you zero to maintain NFT. You know, so it costs you, you have to, you have to manage it. And he also actually ended up actually putting a lot of money into it in the beginning. And, you know, you'll end up spending a lot of money in order to make money and know the one platform wasn't working for us. But I've got some exciting news that in, in a week or two, I've just signed a deal with one of the biggest platforms in the world called crypto.com. And, you know, they very, very select on which artists they work with, which is cool.
James Laughlin 22:14
That’s exciting. Congratulations, man.
Ari Hersch 22:17
Thank you. Thank you. So, I'm having my first drop with them actually, on the fourth of August. And that's what I've been working on. So, they basically like, they like my exclusive gallery signing, you know, that I'm working with. And I'm very excited to see what comes out of that, you know, they they're well-known platform. And let's see.
James Laughlin 22:39
Good luck. I'm super excited. I'll be tuning in for that. And everyone that's listening, I'll make sure that this episode goes live around that time so that people can come and check it out and be a part of that journey.
WHAT GIVES YOUR LIFE MEANING?
I love it. And if we take a look at your life, because I always find people who are creative. So, I'm a drummer. So, drums since I was eight or nine years old and very passionate about music. But I find that creative people often are deep thinkers as well. So, when you think about your life, what gives your life meaning.
Ari Hersch 23:09
So, what is my life meaning? definitely my family is everything to me. And definitely after this whole year, has made me realize that how important your family members are. And I mean, I haven't seen my family in more than a year. And I have a niece that I haven't met yet in person. But thank God for zoom. And, yeah, so my, my family gives me meaning. And obviously, I'm very driven. And my goal gives me meaning, you know, my goal to succeed, if it's, I'm not saying succeed financially, to succeed in life to make sure that I'm doing what I love. You know, that is that gives me meaning to wake up every morning and do my bed and get up and come and sit down and be able to sketch and do exactly what I love and to make money from it. That's just the bonus, you know, it's just the, it's just the cherry on the top, just to, but just to be able to do that is gives me meaning to get up every day.
WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU’RE HAVING TOUGH DAYS?
James Laughlin 24:12
And that's powerful. And when you're hitting brick walls, you're having tough days. Do you have any strategies or habits that you go to that help you to reconnect and open up again?
Ari Hersch 24:24
So, yeah, so for me, like I don't I don't necessarily talk about my stresses to anyone. I keep very, I would say very closed. But I'd like to get out about hacking a lot. I like to have my own time away that I can think about things. And it's very important that you have mentors in your life, that you're able to maybe bounce ideas off, people that you respect and can have a conversation with an awesome opinion and that will add value and It's very important that the people that have also failed. I think everyone's failed, but the way that they dealt with their failure. So, first of all, for me, I go to sleep at night, and I wake up the next morning and I'm recharged. Doesn't matter what happened the day before I could have had the worst day. It's crazy. My wife always says to me, she doesn't know how I do that. Because some people will stay up the whole night, and we'll let him worry them, you know, but I'll literally go to sleep. The next morning, I wake up, and it's like, nothing happened the next day or the day before, you know, I just tackled stuck as it comes, you know? If it's in our power to control it, we control it, you know?
Yeah, I think it's, it's definitely a gift. Because I don't know how many people are able to deal with the stresses like that. And yeah, look, when people are serving you, when you have when you hit those brick walls, you might think that's the end. And you might think, sure, I can't believe that. What do I do now, you know, I need to maybe stop doing what I'm doing? You know, I don't think you should ever stop doing what you're doing. Maybe it's a sign, maybe it's a sign that you need to learn something from it. And just take it and see what you can do with it.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MENTORS?
James Laughlin 26:28
Great advice. And we talked about mentors. So, do you have mentors in different areas of your life? Not just say, in your creative in your professional life. Do you have different mentors?
Ari Hersch 26:38
Yeah, but, and like I said to you like, in life, you never know what and why you're on those particular journeys, because like I said, I've met so many amazing people on my journey to where I am now, that from even when I worked for the architectural firm in Cape Town. My boss and mentor, there will always be someone that are that I respect. And, you know, he built up an amazing architectural firm. He's a lecturer at Columbia University in New York. He's, yeah, he's a dynamic individual. So, like, he was a very, very solid figure, and someone to look up to and almost, and then there's others. You know, my mother is very successful in business. I speak to her a lot. And she's a very good sounding board. And my wife as well, my wife is actually a very, very good sounding board.
James Laughlin 27:34
It's important to have that, you know, I think we agree when you look at successful leaders, they don't just go it alone. They've got a great team, they've got great coaches, mentors, and I'm glad you reinforced that that someone at your level is continuing to seek that counsel from good sources.
Ari Hersch 27:49
Yeah, that's very important. If you've got friends that are doesn't mean they have to be CEOs of big companies that could be working in a job and still have very, very good lessons that they could teach, you know, and that's very important. But your mentors and coaches are great. If you can find good people to give you good solid, sometimes the truth hurts, sometimes they'll say to you, look, I don't know what you're doing. Well, you definitely on the wrong chair. Wrong pod. And you might feel like, I can't believe you said that to me. But you know, sometimes you need to really go back, think about what they said. And maybe look at it from other people's angles, you know, because definitely helps.
WHERE CAN PEOPLE FIND YOUR WORK?
James Laughlin 28:36
100% great advice. And for people out there who want to connect with your work. So, let's say there's someone out there who's young, but they love your work. And they want to kind of get started on the journey of supporting you. But being you know, buying, you're buying your work, where can they start? Where do they go to find your work?
Ari Hersch 28:51
so, they can, they can connect with me on Facebook, on Instagram, I get a lot of I get a lot of artists that messaged me on social media, I try to reach out to every single one of them, and just give them some advice. And it's been very difficult for me to meet a lot of them in person. I've got a huge following store in South Africa. So, a lot of my base is based there and I'm not in the country anymore. So, it's very difficult for me to meet them in person as much as I'd love to and sit down with them and actually see where they are. Because, like I said to you, I can learn from them as well. And, you know, and it's very important, like I had a guy asked me the other day, and he's working a job, his passion is art, and he wants to, he wants to be an artist. So, I said to him, where have you studied anything? Or have you done anything? He said to me, no, but I'd like to study something. I said, I think it's very important. Go study something, you know, if it's art, study art, if it's graphic design, so we actually had a discussion he said to me now and actually he's looking to study graphic design. So, I'm trying to I'll help him out and decide which college or which University he would like to study at. And I said to him, look, I explained to him the whole the how the art world works, and, and how difficult it is. And I think it's very important that you can have multiple strengths that you can fall back on. If one doesn't work out, like I said to you, I've got an interior architecture degree that I could always just jump back into that I've got years of marketing experience that I could also utilize. So, I'm now in a position that I can concentrate on my art because I still have the comfort of knowing that maybe, you know, if it doesn't work out, I can just do something else. And when I hear people that I know that are not in a financial, do not have the financial ability to, to sit and sketch every day and to kind of stress and do that all the time. And I kind of like advise them, just try find something else that you can earn good income, that you can put food, provide food and a roof over your head.
And sketch on the side, you know, we can always find time to do that. And if you're sketching on the side, you never know where you're, if you're working in a job, you meeting people all the time, say to them, this is my work, check it out, you know? And that's how I also grew, I grew my business, I was often sitting in board meetings with other service providers that used to provide the company with services. And I'd say to them, you know, guys, I'm an artist, check out my work. They're looking at it, I couldn't believe it. So yeah,
James Laughlin 31:44
That’s so cool! That's some of the best advice I've ever heard. Because I knew that in the creative world music and artists, you, you're often in your mind, you think I just got to go all in, I'm going to go all in on this. And, you know, I'm going to have no plan B. But actually, what you're saying makes so much more sense. I want to talk to any elite athletes, like some of the All-Blacks rugby players I was chatting to. They were sound like, you know, most of us have degrees, most of us have went to university and got degrees, or whilst we're doing our elite sports, we're studying a degree on the side, or we've got a farm that we've bought a farm, we've got that as a backup. So, I really love hearing that. I think more people should hear that, that you can do your passion thing on the side, but also integrated, like you didn't break out love at the boardroom and get a bit of exposure to what you do. That's great advice.
Ari Hersch 32:32
I couldn't believe it. And most of the people when I used to say to them, this is my art. They were like, wow, where can we see it? You know, and that's just opens up other doors.
James Laughlin 32:43
100% anytime I show your artwork to anyone, they're always like, wow, like Mind blown because it is unique. And it is there's a signature to what you do. You've got a brand about your art. And it's very unique. So, you've got something special going on.
Ari Hersch 32:56
Yeah, that's what I'm, that's my goal is to create a brand around the art. And we'll see where I can go. I'm looking at certain things maybe in fashion. Who knows? United States?
James Laughlin 33:10
There's no ceiling operating above you, man.
Yeah, I don't see any ceilings.
WHAT DOES LIVING LIFE ON PURPOSE REALLY MEAN?
That’s so good. I love it. Now there's one last question. I always like to ask anybody that jumps on the show. And that question is, you know, for you, what does living life on purpose really mean?
Ari Hersch 33:33
Life on purpose. Sure. Like, like we said, have meaning and make life enjoyable. And try to see the good in the bad. And, you know, when you're an old man or old woman, you want to look back at it as zero regrets. I think don't have regrets. Even if it wasn't something that you expected. Just try and look at everything as a lesson. And yeah.
James Laughlin 34:11
that's great advice. And I love your perspective on life. And I know that you guys are obviously preparing to have an addition to your family. So, I want to wish you nothing but the best in the coming months.
Ari Hersch 34:21
Thank you. Thank you.
I'll be following closely by
We're very excited about it. It's my first child.
James Laughlin 34:27
Oh, man, it's going to be amazing. You're going to be a great dad, you're obviously very present in your life and very thoughtful. So, you'll make a great dad.
Well, thanks for taking the time to connect. And as I say, everyone that's watching and listening, please go and check out Ari’s work. I'll put all the links to your website and your Instagram, get people coming to check your stuff out. It's simply incredible. So, I'm honored to have spent some time with you and I look forward to one day actually connect with you in person once COVID permits.
I'm looking forward to as well.
That'd be awesome. Hey, thanks a million.
Thank you so much.
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